Team Spotlight: Justine Thompson, Executive Director InterLaw Diversity Forum

Hannah White speaks with Justine Thompson about her professional journey and her insights into diversity, inclusion, and culture in the legal sector.

Can you tell us a bit about your career journey - from being part of the McDonalds’ "Superteam" to heading up DEI at a top law firm and then making the leap into Cultural Leadership at InterLaw (and beyond)? 

Without rattling off too much information, I applied for a part time job at McDonalds soon after my 16th birthday. I had actually achieved the highest Maths and English GCSE grades in my school, but being open, at that point I did not think I was good enough to work anywhere else. I turned up for my first shift a week early - and had to do the "walk of shame" out of the restaurant listening to the shift manager chuckling as I left. I spent my first shift on the Quarter Pounder station, where my fears of not being good enough were realised - physically I just couldn't keep up. After moving from the kitchen to the tills, I soon developed an approach that has stuck with me throughout my career: to utterly work my socks off in a bid to prove (to myself as much as anyone else) that I was good enough to be there. At McDonalds, I was quick. I was often told by customers mine was the fastest queue, I took record takings in my till (£1,400 one Saturday - which was a lot of burgers in the 90's). It culminated in being entered into their 1998 Superteam competition, and after a number of heats around the south east, I was recognised as part of the very best McDonalds had to offer in the South East. All the while life was falling apart at home. Shortly before working at McDonalds my mum died, and while there my dad attempted suicide and I became homeless for a short period. 

I worked for McDonalds for about 4 years, and took a lot from it that stuck. There are things you might expect, like teamwork and service. But also more profound lessons. What it feels like to be looked down on. The importance of not making assumptions (the guy who came in on the nightshift to clean the grills had two degrees and spoke 7 languages). I also learned first-hand that work can become an escape from difficulties at home. Every one of these lessons has shaped how I approach work and how I treat others.

After deciding a career for life at McDonalds was not for me, I responded to a job advert (with the title "HR needs Help") in Ms. London, a free magazine. It turns out this was a role in the Graduate Recruitment team at then Deloitte & Touche, where my first job involved typing handwritten application forms (realise I'm showing my age here) onto a database. Just like at McDonalds, I felt I wasn't good enough to be there and I utterly worked my socks off in a bid to prove myself as worthy. Quite literally, that job changed everything. I worked my way (very slightly!) up at Deloitte - lived through the Arthur Anderson transaction and then decided it was time to make a move. My first law firm role was in the Graduate Recruitment team at Clifford Chance in the early 2000s, which I would politely describe as a rude awakening. After initially being horrified by the long hours, perplexed by the need for a swimming pool in the office, and crying on my first day, I quickly threw myself into working my socks off, developed an appreciation and fondness for the eccentricities of lawyers and the peculiarities of law firms and I guess the rest is history. 

Were there any pivotal moments in your career that shaped your passion for inclusion and culture? |

After my Clifford Chance days, I joined the graduate team in a firm where there was a huge disparity in the percentage of minority ethnic applicants and hires (this is almost 20 years ago). The work to address that was meaningful and had a profound impact on my perspective at work. But solving one problem does not mean you have solved all problems. It led, later down the line, to work to understand the lived experiences of minority ethnic junior hires in what was then a predominantly white, fairly elite firm. This work almost definitely contributed to the firm's willingness to move me into a diversity role, and it unquestionably made me a more effective diversity practitioner. I am exceptionally grateful for the experience at that particular firm, and the opportunity to work with so many who were prepared to listen and to support real change. 

Who has been a major influence on your leadership style, and what have you learned from them?

I hold great respect for Segun Osuntokun at BCLP for his integrity, his pragmatism and his humility and the late Paul Rawlinson at Baker McKenzie for his ability to connect with people through warmth, humour and genuine care (from the GC at his biggest clients to the Big Issue seller stationed outside of the office). They are among the very best people I've worked with in law firms.

What advice would you give to those in the legal sector who are committed to DEI but feel frustrated by slow progress or pushback?

Certain change or progress can be swift - for instance, if you improve a process, you may see pretty immediate results when you deploy the new approach. But other changes take time. In almost every major firm the make up of the partnership doesn't reflect the make up of the Associate population, but in large firms, the change will be incremental. This can be a frustrating reality, but it's a reality and being prepared to stick at it long term is important.

The push back we have seen has felt pretty crushing for many of us working in this space. What I would say is that the core of that push back is the assumption that DEI is a zero sum game that involves lowering the bar for, or giving more favourable treatment to, diverse talent. In all the years I have worked in this space, DEI has never been about that. It has been about dignity, respect, inclusion, fair treatment - and identifying and addressing the barriers that stand in the way of each of these things. Firms haven't always got it right, but I believe the commitment to these areas was genuine, and that the commitment to these areas is not going away, even during more challenging times. 

Finally, what’s a go-to habit or mindset you think helps foster inclusion day to day?

I would say two things.

First, be alert to who is on the outskirts in your team. Who isn't involved in the informal team dynamics. Who doesn't seem to have a voice. It's very easy to either not notice when someone is excluded - or to decide it's not your problem. So being alert and feeling a sense of personal responsibility to act is important.

Second, be alive to the fact that we all have a different frame of reference. Allowing people to tap into our own perspective - and being willing to consider the perspective of others (even when it's in conflict with our own) is important in finding common ground. It's very difficult to solve problems without some form of disagreement along the way - and I think our reticence to have difficult conversations has led to assumptions, misinformation, frustration and polarisation.